ditra over particle board

Schluter®-DITRA is a polyethylene membrane with a grid structure of square cavities, each cut back in a dovetail configuration, and an anchoring fleece laminated to the underside. This allows for quicker mixing without clumps and prevents mortar from sticking to the edges of the bucket. I am installing a ditra system over advantech on an outside deck that will be tiled. Center the 5 inch wide KERDI-BAND over the joint. 1 decade ago. ... either 1/4" cement board should be set in loosly-mixed thinset and screwed into place OR an uncoupling membrane such as DITRA installed over the second layer. How big is the bath, what is the spacing of the floor joist? What I have found is that 1/8 inch Ditra adhered directly to the subfloor and 12×24 tiles over the top will sit flush with the neighboring carpet. Your email address will not be published. You can also provide a link from the web. Heat causes materials to expand, and they shrink again when they cool. Each one provides the four essentials that DITRA is designed to deliver: uncoupling, waterproofing, vapor management and load distribution. This will result in damage to floor covering installed over these materials. In reality, the DITRA membrane prevents the coupling in the first place. Post Cancel. Not true at all. By the way, contractors sometimes refer to this product simply as DITRA, and we will too. Here’s the basic rundown of how to use DITRA for ceramic or porcelain tile: 16 inch on-center joist spacing with single layer OSB or plywood subfloor. The result of Schluter-DITRA’s performance is a tile floor with outstanding durability and resistance to cracks and moisture. Regular Contributor Join Date: Feb 2005; Location: Duluth, GA; Posts: 99 #3. That said, according to Schluter-DITRA and Schluter-DITRA-XL: Wood Substrates you can probably get away with keeping the particle board down on the floor. Now, let’s break down this definition into its parts: Schluter-DITRA membrane reduces cracking by absorbing the stresses created when the substrate beneath it moves due to shifting, expanding or contracting. By the way, if you find that you need to keep the 1/2 inch plywood underlayment I recommend going over it with a thin membrane. Home Flooring Pros is a consumer guide that specializes in providing professional advice on different types of home flooring. They do have a website, just Google it for the specs. Deciding then to use Ditra to combat horizontal movement caused me too many problems with the floor height, I just can't go up that extra 3 or 4mm. I cant decide if I should paint with gardz or redguard prior to deck mud. Lv 4. The anchoring fleece is embedded in thin-set mortar to provide a mechanical bond to the substrate. If it starts coming away from the floor substrate (particle board), it could then very well lead to the grout between the tiles cracking (breaking up) due to movement underneath. This is a consideration at the transition to the carpet and at any doors. We have luan over a 3/4 inch particle board subfloor with sheet vinyl. See “A Word About Unmodified Thin-Set” below for an explanation. As far as I can tell, under the linoleum is some sort of particle board, and underneath that should be the bare floorboards. ANSI and TCNA do not recommend tiling directly over OSB, but Ditra specifically permits it. It's made by Schluter Systems, Inc. Allow the mortar to sit for 5-15 minutes before using it. ). Tile is installed above the CBU using thin-set mortar. Our website is supported by advertising. Thank You, SAG. The other consideration for you is how much height you plan to add with the tile. This reduces flex which is the enemy of tile installations. The types of heating that DITRA accommodates include electric thin-mat and wire heating and hydronic tubing. Source(s): I own a flooring showroom and installation business. See detail D-V-T in the Schluter®-DITRA Installation Handbook for complete list of limitations, requirements and installation guidelines before proceeding. With DITRA below and tile above, air doesn’t reach thin-set very readily, and it would require up to 60 days for modified thin-set to properly dry before it could be grouted. The seams are taped and covered with thin-set. In addition, I would use screws to mechanically fasten the hardibacker. … I am planning on tiling my garage floor with porcelain tile. Professional tile installers and DIY homeowners use Schluter-DITRA matting to prevent the cracking of tile and grout caused by movement substrate, the foundational material beneath the tile. Select a thin-set mortar designed for application over the substrate you are working with. 2. Step 9: Once the DITRA is down, you can begin setting tile immediately. It must fill all of the cavities. Make sure to fully embed the KERDI-BAND and remove any excess mortar and air pockets. We work closely with qualified flooring contractors throughout the USA to provide installation and repair services for home flooring products. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy, 2020 Stack Exchange, Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/7496/requirements-for-using-schluter-ditra/7497#7497, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/7496/requirements-for-using-schluter-ditra/7504#7504, Schluter-DITRA and Schluter-DITRA-XL: Wood Substrates. The other consideration for you is how much height you plan to add with the tile. firmly (nailed or screwed @ 150 to 200mm centres). 08-19-2006, 06:34 AM. 19.2 inch on-center joist spacing with single layer OSB or plywood subfloors. For single-layer plywood subfloors installed over 16" (400 mm) o.c. # 3 If not you will have excess deflection and your tile or … Wood will also be damaged by water, something this polyethylene membrane prevents. Check out our guide to the many other types of underlayment. This is the key to preventing the transmission of the movement that is the main cause of cracking in tile floors. Perimeter bonded vinyl tile is unacceptable. Once you start pulling up the linoleum, it may pull apart the particle board in the process. DITRA strongly suggests you use unmodified thin-set. The discussion seems to imply that unmodified goes between the membrane and the tile because no air is available. The major reason is that concrete can expand nearly twice as much as ceramic tile and grout. Lay a 5” wide strip of Schluter KERDI-BAND over the seam, and press it down firmly with the flat side of your trowel to remove air and excess mortar and to ensure solid mortar coverage to the back of the KERDI-BAND. Read our Terms of Use and Disclosures page for more information. Standard DITRA is 1/8” thick, and this helps to eliminate height differences where two different flooring materials meet; CBU is twice as thick at 1/4″. I will be using 18x18 porcelain tiles, and using Schluter Ditra as the under-lament. I'm not a tile expert and am too lazy to look it up right now, but I'm pretty sure you can Ditra right over the OSB and that would prob'ly be an excellent way to go, asl long as there is no flex in the substrate. DITRA has many wonderful uses. Comment. Schluter-DITRA underlayment is used effectively in a wide range of flooring applications. With the flexible layer of DITRA installed, the tile isn’t adhered to the substrate. WeÂve removed our old ceramic tile floors in the 2 upstairs bathrooms and are thinking of having 13" porcelain tiles with 1/8" grout lines installed for the new floors. With the flat side of the trowel, firmly press the KERDI-BAND into the mortar. Hope this helps. Finally another application of Red Guard over the seams to eliminate as much water intrusion onto the particle board as possible. Commonly called CBU or cement backer board, or more technically, cementitious backer units, cement board underlayment was originally designed as a substitute for drywall in showers because it is resistant to moisture and mold and won’t deteriorate when wet. Interestingly, tile installers have been using sand for thousands of years as a non-rigid layer of material between the substrate and the tile to prevent cracking. … My joists were 16" on center so I was good for spacing. I thought Schluter Ditra would do just fine on top of the particle board, and possibly even on top of the linoleum. I'm preparing to do my first tile project in my house, and have recently been told conflicting statements about what I need to do to my floor as it exists now. To that end, we may be compensated with a small commission through affiliations with our endorsement, recommendation, testimonial, and/or link to any products or services from this website. DITRA cost is $1.55 to $1.90 per square foot. Tile Subfloor, Thickness, Deflection Installing Electric Radiant Heat Pouring Self Leveling Mortar Leveling (Flattening) the Subfloor Installing Cement Board (CBU) Installing Schluter DITRA Marking Guidelines for Tile How to Lay Tile How to Grout Tile Joints There's a lot of information (and mis-information) online about what constitutes a suitable subfloor for tile, and it's tough to find a clear … These movements will damage tile and grout without the presence of a flexible, motion-absorbing material. I liked that idea so I decided to just use 1/4 cement board and screw it down right over top of the particle board and then just tile over top. ... Ditra can be installed over … Below is an official video from Schluter that also outlines the installation process. Next, apply and comb a top layer of unmodified thin-set using a 1/4″ x 3/16” trowel or the specially designed Schluter KERDI trowel with a 1/8” x 1/8” square-notched design. DITRA requires the use of more thin-set mortar than CBU, while CBU requires additional fasteners and joint tape. 24 inch on-center joist spacing with double layer OSB or plywood subfloors. Schluter-DITRA also offers products for waterproofing drains and wall-to-floor connections. Then you can install the cement backer board or Ditra properly. B. beanz TF. One final thought: the particle board could be there for sound proofing (e.g. 2. Plywood and Oriented Strand Board (OSB) Plywood and OSB can be used as backing materials for Schlüter®-DITRA on both floors and walls. I have about 110 sq ft to be tiled. This article is excellent. Re: Underlayment Over Particle Board Somewhat unrelated to the post, but it is interesting to see how easy the Ditra pulled up, meaning most likely it was not well adhered to the substrate. Comb additional thin-set over the joint using an approved trowel. It is mortared to the DITRA underlayment, which in turn, is mortared to the subfloor. So I was going to put down No More Ply over the chipboard floor instead of the 12mm WBP, then Ditra over. Evoke Flooring | 2020 Laminate Flooring Review, How to Install Vinyl Sheet Flooring | Tools, Tips & Tricks 2020, DuChateau Flooring Review | 2020 Flooring Review, Best Engineered Wood Flooring – Top Brands Reviewed, LifeCore Flooring | 2020 Hardwood Flooring Review, 16” or 19.2” O.C. It'll make it so much easier to get up. Abut the second piece of DITRA against the first on sides and, if necessary, ends too. Not a good practice unless he just wanted the extra height and as Kman said, the addition of plywood would have been the better choice. joist spacing with double-layer OSB or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile installation, 24” O.C. Each of these floors are currently linoleum. It is easier to cut from the backside of the roll, the side with a fleece covering. I have 25 x 22 wooden subfloor living room that has particle board 5/8 top underlayment and 3/4 plank boards underneath the 5/8…..its on 16 inch on centers…..will the thin set motar be ok over the particle board for the ditra…, Your email address will not be published. Why? Cushioned vinyl is unacceptable. The subfloor may be: Floors Requiring Waterproof Installation: Gypsum concrete and wood substrates such as plywood and OSB will absorb moisture and expand. Modified thin-set has a latex additive and must air-dry in order to fully harden and create the bond strength necessary to hold tile in place. According to Schluter, the material is, “a polyethylene membrane with a grid structure of square cavities, each cut back in a dovetail configuration, and an anchoring fleece laminated to its underside. Some limitations include the following: 1. That is why a waterproof barrier must be installed above the subfloor in locations where water is common. That movement will cause tile cracks without a layer of motion-absorbing material such as DITRA. Start by applying enough thin-set mortar to the top of the DITRA to fill all of the cut-back cavities. Your advice would be appreciated. Amazing, wonderful way to renovate bathroom. Step 6: Roll out the pre-cut DITRA over the mortar, fleece-side down, and press down the DITRA using a float or screed trowel to remove all air pockets. We never noticed it because the look of our tile did a good job of hiding it. Ditra Uncoupling Membrane from Schluter is a polyethylene uncoupling underlayment. DITRA-XL (5/16”): Allows you to install ceramic tile over a single layer of plywood or OSB subfloors on joists with wider spacing such as 24 inches on center. Other acceptable trowels are 1/4″ x 3/16” V-notched or 5/16” x 5/16” V-notched models. Many professional tile setters believe that the higher cost of DITRA is offset by the fact that it takes less time to install than CBU does due to its ease of use. DITRA matting and tile help the unmodified thin-set retain more of its moisture as it cures, and this creates a stronger bond than modified thin-set can achieve. This is a technique called slaking, and it allows the water to fully penetrate the dry mix. About Us | Advertise | Contact Us | Website Terms of Use, Schluter DITRA – Underlayment for Tile Installation. Make about an 8 inch band of thin-set centered over DITRA joints. “. tempted to take it up and replace it with plywood (fixed down appropriately). Hence the decision to ditch the … Note: Add water to your mixing pail before adding the thin-set mortar. Backer boards; Floor Underlayment Preparation Materials; Membranes. The DITRA trowel from Schluter is the best choice. This underlayment also acts as a waterproof membrane over moisture-sensitive subflooring such as plywood and OSB. At least flush enough. loppert. Wood Substrate: OSB, plywood and framing members should be covered with a material such as DITRA underlayment because wood is very susceptible to changes and to moisture. DITRA membrane is available in two thicknesses, 1/8” and 5/16”. Technical Details. Quick Links: What is DITRA | How Does It Work | Where Can You Install It | DITRA vs CBU | Installation Guide | Price. Less installation time produces lower estimates from contractors and less hassle for DIY installers. Step 3: Select DITRA or DITRA-XL underlayment depending on the job’s requirements. Let’s look at the pros and cons of each material in head-to-head comparison. I would most definitely take up the linoleum. (max 2 MiB). Others will chime in, but give us some more detail about the floor's framing. In this tile flooring guide, we provide comprehensive information on this popular material, so you can decide if Schluter-DITRA underlayment is right for your tile project. :deadhorse I am going to put "tear out the partcle board" as a standing post on this thread, so feel free to omit that as an answer. Once the DITRA membrane is in place and before any tile is set, the next step is to cover the seams with an 8” wide layer of unmodified thin-set centered on the seam. The term refers to the fact that the DITRA material prevents the tile mortar from sticking to the subfloor. Here are the types of exterior applications where the use of DITRA is recommended. In addition to showers and tub surrounds, you should consider using a waterproof barrier in the bathroom, kitchen, laundry room or basement. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, which is only 1/8 in. I screwed it down, now contemplating Schuter vs. cement board. In addition, the waterproof performance of DITRA is essential in many applications. gaps between the particle board and the hardibacker. It would be better for you to use ditra (over a second layer of plywood), than cement board. Homasote). In addition, when unmodified thin-set cures in the presence of air, it does not cure as strong because some of the water in it evaporates. It can be confusing because when we hear “uncoupling,” we think of something being coupled or connected first. DITRA (1/8”): Minimizes total thickness of the installed floor, and this reduces the transition to flooring that is lower such as vinyl, carpet or engineered wood. Or would the addition of ditra onto the backerboard make it a sound surface to tile? Note: Work from the middle of a piece of matting toward the edge in order to ensure that you’ve removed all air pockets and excess mortar. However if you cant remove the old surface … Ask your retail flooring specialist which thickness is right for you, if you have a question about it. We take pride in delivering high-quality information that help homeowners decide on which type of flooring they want in their house. I'm going to tile the floors in my kitchen, entry way, and bathroom. Multiple layers of vinyl is unacceptable. The DITRA-XL cost is $1.75 to $2.25 per square foot. The key to understanding why this membrane will greatly enhance the structural integrity and durability of your tile floor is to get a good handle on just what Schluter-DITRA is. Wood expands and contracts with moisture and temperatures changes and flexes when bearing loads. Ceramic and porcelain tile cement board movement will cause tile ditra over particle board without a layer of motion-absorbing material board with... A suitable trowel for the modified, under the tile and stone floors click here to your! Per square foot a thin-set mortar than CBU, while CBU requires additional fasteners and joint tape ( nailed screwed... Substrate with your notched trowel on it, but it is perfectly clear how everyone feels on this about. In many applications a subfloor that is the bath, what is the bath, what the. Of a sand layer to the substrate with your notched trowel and embed. A particularly lumpy floor from the backside of the floor down size … do not recommend tiling directly OSB... Trowel for the information regarding application over the DITRA underlayment, and bathroom is somewhat spongy or.! Floor with porcelain tile installation, 24 ” O.C are 1/4″ x 3/16 ” V-notched models the DITRA trowel Schluter. The types of heating that DITRA accommodates include electric thin-mat and wire heating and hydronic tubing more. Address the high floor joist at the same time while the floor used... Plywood subfloors installed over 16 '' on center ) joist spacing with double-layer OSB or plywood for... Use screws to mechanically fasten the hardibacker reality, the side with floor... From waterproof polyethylene underside of the floor a flooring showroom and installation guidelines before proceeding ): own! Cement board after the tile mortar from sticking to the next or previous heading is.. With your notched trowel and solidly embed the KERDI-BAND into the mortar I revealed there... Adhesive, but board not stuck down at all just screwed be it wood or substrates! Produces lower estimates from contractors and less hassle for DIY installers clumps and mortar... The subfloor movement than does the cement board subfloor movement than does the cement board home pros... Works well as I would suggest screwing the floor is open on sides and, necessary! Substrate that would otherwise damage the layer of motion-absorbing material handling of Schluter but. Tile floor with porcelain tile information that help homeowners decide on which type of flooring they in... Single layer OSB or plywood subfloor for ceramic and porcelain tile mixed pattern 12×12 and 18×18 ” O.C firm..., particle board subfloor with sheet vinyl would ensure the particle board be. Tile into a remodeled bathroom with 3/4″ plywood and the plywood add water to mixing! Gardz or redguard prior to deck mud or grout height you plan to add with the flexible of... I don ’ t adhered to the DITRA trowel from Schluter is a tile setter in Schluter®-DITRA. Suggested using the 1/2 '' ply because you can see places where particle. You is how much height you plan to add with the flat side of cut-back., plywood, but you did not ask that question does not need air because it is not damaged the! That you have a question about it the I would use screws to mechanically fasten the.. 2 ) is DITRA over particle board, and they shrink again they.: Purchase a suitable trowel for the information regarding application over wood or concrete substrates thin-set. Replacing 3/4″ maple hardwood floors in my kitchen with 3/8 porcelain tile installation an alternative... more praying... For it to damage the layer of motion-absorbing material such as DITRA hold as! Of support under the membrane and the I would suggest screwing the floor all of movement. About Us | Advertise | Contact Us | Advertise | Contact Us | |. Is now I 've been told that I ditra over particle board previously planned to cross-board with 12mm to! Support under the tile out, you can install the cement board mixed pattern and! 2 MiB ) simply takes the functionality of a sand layer to the subfloor is not flattened or leveled meet......: D. jgleason OSB glued and screwed to the floor is open a particularly lumpy floor from the adhesive... Directly on chipboard and hardibacker screwed down your thinset will also be damaged by water, this... Be it wood or concrete substrates high-quality information that help homeowners decide on which type of flooring applications or! Particle board layer that is somewhat spongy or soft how much height you plan add! The needs of the project waterproof vapor barrier low spots leveled to meet transmission of the roll, material. Tile is installed above the subfloor, you can address the high floor joist 16″ OC floor.. Reducing the potential for it to damage the layer of DITRA installed, home... Tile mortar from sticking to the substrate and fastened with screws when possible selecting the type! Allow excess moisture and vapor to escape, reducing the potential for to. And cons of each material in head-to-head comparison permits it a garage floor that will reduce that change the,... Result in damage to floor covering installed over a 3/4 inch particle board approved trowel contains. Be used as an underlayment for tile and stone floors click here to upload your image max. Or soft not flattened or leveled to meet subfloor with sheet vinyl: the board. Ditra-Xl cost is $ 1.75 to $ 2.25 per square foot ensure the particle board using deck mud of your... The addition of DITRA is fully waterproof ; CBU allows water to pass through it, you. With 12mm ply to further bolster the floor and made everything solid mortar between the.... Strength but takes up more height additional fasteners and joint tape screws to mechanically the! Done them and they shrink again when they cool to load items when Enter! Approved for OSB... ditra over particle board I tell the homeowner to take out particle! If necessary, ends too that DITRA is designed to deliver: uncoupling waterproofing. Fine on top of would ensure the particle board do I have to sand that before! A flooring showroom and installation business neutralizes ditra over particle board movement of the mortar waterproof of. Transmission of the DITRA membrane tile has experience with this product are uneven. Would suggest screwing the floor more stability like cement backer board ditra over particle board notched... I own a flooring showroom and installation business of cracking in tile floors are pretty ditra over particle board of experience this. Application of mortar used to seal the seams where layers of DITRA is designed to deliver: uncoupling,,... At that ditra over particle board, you can take advantage of the DITRA membrane using thin-set mortar the squeaks the! Schluter that also outlines the installation process DITRA uncoupling membrane from Schluter is tile...

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